Land For Food Production

[granny_nuts]

I wonder just how much land it would take to feed a family of, say, 4? I know that if my family didn't buy fruit and veg we wouldn't have enough to eat but is self sufficiency down to amount of land or method of growing? Last year I overcrowded my small veg plot with counter-productive results like mildew and snail infestation that went unnoticed until we came to pick the tomatoes (all holes!). I wonder if anyone has ever been totally self providing or whether the local market and barter played a large part in rural survival??

[Terri]

Well, according to Masanobu Fukuoka, who wrote "One Straw Revolution", it takes 1/4 of an acre to provide rice and vegetables. Of course that was in Japan, it is hot and humid, and they get 2 harvests a year. For that matter, if they start the rice in a separate plot and transplant it into their rice paddys they could ALSO get a spring crop of greens, which would be sold in town so then they had 3 crops not 2. Of course they mostly ate rice, fish, and veggetables: if they ate beef it would be a whole 'nother story!

Here in Kansas, with a 5 month growing season, we get 50 bushels of wheat to the acre, or up to 200 bushels of corn. I bushel is about 26 kilos. So 50 bushels of wheat would be the same as perhaps 1000 kilos of whole wheat flour per acre? Chickens and rabbits could be kept in a small area and fed grains and weeds.

As for a vegetables, I can raise enough FRESH vegetables on a 50 by 50 garden plot for my family of 4, and I do, but, I would need to have more than that to put up vegetables for the winter. I suspect that I could raise enough vegetables on a garden that was 100 feet by 100 feet.

During our Great Depression (in the late 1930's) my Mother in Law says that they had a vegetable garden that was an acre in size, which provided the food for the family of 5. However, they also had milk from their cow and pork and they raised corn and bought large bags of beans. My husbands grandfather wanted white beans every single day!

[Alex McKee]

Top post Terri!

I would just add that there are high density agriculture and permaculture methods that can get high yields from small spaces with very little or no use of fertilizers. This summer many such methods are being tried out by various farmers in connection with the Transition Towns movement.

[granny_nuts]

Yes, really interesting. 100 feet x 100 feet sounds fairly manageable - it's the length of our back garden by at least twice the width so I can just about imagine it - and ther'd be plenty of room for potatoes! At the moment I'm scratching my head as to where to put all the plants I've brought on. By the way Alex my tomatillos survived but they are very slow and still extremely small. How are yours?
My back is aching,my hands are black,my nails torn and sore. Now I'm thinking more in terms of the man/woman power required per 1lb of usable crop needed in order to survive the winter??

[Terri]

Alex, since you said that permaculture is popular now I went and did a search for it. I found quite a bit: much more so than when I searched a few years ago! Thank you!

[Alex McKee]

By the way Alex my tomatillos survived but they are very slow and still extremely small. How are yours?

They were doing great but got a bit leggy. They were pretty sturdy though so I didn't support them. Then one day last week a football came over the fence and broke the best plant. Gutted!

I've started a new batch from seed and I intend to encourage these to grow lower and more sturdy. I don't know if Tomatillos will, as tomato plants do, put down roots wherever the vine touches but I suspect they will.

My tomatoes are doing much better - there's a few nearly ready to harvest now.

Alex, since you said that permaculture is popular now I went and did a search for it. I found quite a bit: much more so than when I searched a few years ago! Thank you!

Hey that's great! Glad it inspired you to look into it again. I'm not a zealot for any particular method of growing but I try to look for what works and I've used various permaculture methods over the years and they really do seem to work well.

[granny_nuts]

Did you return the ball in one piece or did your gardening fork accidently come into contact with it?
I haven't even got any toms on my plants yet but I left everything so late this year - except the garlic which is doing well. I grew some chicory which has come up well. It looks like small, smooth leaved lettuces at the moment and I need to plant it out and then do something complicated in late Autumn/Winter involving flower pots and light exclusion. I believe there are other sorts which don't make chicons but am not sure what happens with them.
You should have time to bring on more tomatillos, I have come to see that starting some things too early can be counter productive.I sowed broad beans in papier mache modules and kept them in the greenhouse for too long.They are somewhat leggy and have no resistance to the wind. I can see that I might just as well have waited and sown them straight into the soil.
Old time gardeners were right when they used twiggy hazel for their pea sticks. Peas seem to be a bit dim and won't climb readily up the type of smooth can I used this year. Last year I used a load of very twiggy branches that had been pruned from hazel and horse chestnut the previous Autumn and they grew very well.
What are tomatillo fruit like?

[Alex McKee]

Did you return the ball in one piece or did your gardening fork accidently come into contact with it?

Hehe, I can't lie, it did cross my mind. I returned it though.

I haven't even got any toms on my plants yet but I left everything so late this year - except the garlic which is doing well. I grew some chicory which has come up well. It looks like small, smooth leaved lettuces at the moment and I need to plant it out and then do something complicated in late Autumn/Winter involving flower pots and light exclusion. I believe there are other sorts which don't make chicons but am not sure what happens with them.

Never grown chicory. Good luck and keep us posted on it!

You should have time to bring on more tomatillos

Aye, hopefully. I've got some coming on in the window sill.

I have come to see that starting some things too early can be counter productive.I sowed broad beans in papier mache modules and kept them in the greenhouse for too long.They are somewhat leggy and have no resistance to the wind. I can see that I might just as well have waited and sown them straight into the soil.

Yes that's true. Our peas did fine but our beans did not. Fortunately my girlfriends mother was given some bean plants so we're back in the running!

Old time gardeners were right when they used twiggy hazel for their pea sticks. Peas seem to be a bit dim and won't climb readily up the type of smooth can I used this year. Last year I used a load of very twiggy branches that had been pruned from hazel and horse chestnut the previous Autumn and they grew very well.

We used sticks we gathered in the wood near our allotment. Our pea variety was a dwarf so they don't need really big sticks either.

What are tomatillo fruit like?

Tart, somewhat complex. Mind, I image they are as variable as tomatoes can be.

[granny_nuts]

Well hasn't it been scorching? We went on a short break to Suffolk and our hotel room was on the third floor with no lift! Not that I'd use one anyway (I'm certain it would break down) As you hit the third staircase it was so HOT. I slept with a wet towel draped over me!
Watering the garden has been a nightmare. thank goodness we didn't have a hosepipe ban. Before we went away I tried to rig up self watering devices using upturned plastic bottles. It didn't work - the water either ran out too quickly or not at all.
Tomatillos still in bloom - very pretty but the stalks are a bit "succulent" and don't have much resistance to the wind. They really went over in those storms last week.I had to tied them up.
As far as food is concerned we've had some broad beans and peas (very few but nice) and lots of mixed leaves.